Good Golly Miss Molly
Molly and I have already established a firm Saturday-morning routine. First, we stop by Starbucks for some hot liquid breakfast. Then we drive to our local off-leash wonderland and spend the morning running free with dozens of very happy dogs. After that we come home and we both get a scrub down to wash off all that mud/poo/slobber that comes home with you after a trip to the dog park. Molly and I both love this routine, as it gives us a chance to unwind after a stressful week and start the weekend off with some great exercise. I’m not sure how much longer we’ll be able to keep it up though. I don’t know if we’ll get to keep Miss Molly.
This darling pup, who is so sweet and gentle with me, strongly believes that she is more bad-ass than pretty much every other living creature. Including my children. And she believes that it is her job to let everyone know what a stud she is by growling her little face off. Cat walks by? Grrrrrrrr. Visitor stops over for an afternoon? Grrr-snarl-grrrrwl. Child climbs up in my lap? Jump-push-grrr-snap. This is very typical dominance-aggression, but when you have small kids it needs to be taken extremely seriously. Even one tiny warning nip could rip a toddler’s cheek off. As you can see, here she is scaring the crap out of a poor Great Dane puppy this morning. This lumbering giant was terrified of my squat little fireball:
On the positive side, Molly is highly tuned in to me and seeks my approval, so any discipline from me is met with immediate obedience. On the negative side, she’s a terrier mix. Which makes her stubborn, smart, and stealthy. This dog knows how to sneak behind my back to carry out forbidden missions (such as silently climbing up on top of the table to steal food when my back is turned). Although I try to keep an eye on her as much as possible to correct unwanted behaviors quickly, I can’t be everywhere all the time. I just don’t know what to do. She’s an amazing dog, and I already love her with a big smooshy gooshy love. I can’t send her back to the shelter- she was so sick when we brought her home that she had to be hospitalized for 48 hours. She needed IV fluids and antibiotics to ward off a nasty bout of doggy pneumonia. We had to give her three pills a day to keep the infection under control, and after all that she still sneezes and coughs every day. She needs to be bathed with a special skin-soothing shampoo in order to clear up the dry, flaky skin that stress and a bad shelter diet caused. Putting her back in that environment, to endure all that scary isolation and be exposed to all those germs again, is not an option. But I don’t think keeping her is either. As our vet so wisely says, “You can always get a new dog, but your kid can’t ever get a new face.”
In my heart, I don’t think she would actually bite on purpose, but my children’s safety has to come first. Ugh. This is a sad and lame and very sucky situation. Any and all advice freely welcomed. Unless you’re going to be mean to me. Then I shall delete you.
I don’t think that saying people can’t speak freely is really all that encouraging, to start off with. But it doesn’t matter — you can delete my comments if you have to.
If she’s still acting like this, you can’t afford to keep her. You’re not up to the task of being as dominant and controlling as she needs, and you, or your family, or a visitor, will pay the price for it eventually if she stays. Washington’s dog laws are very strict - if she does anything aggressive towards someone and they hurt themselves trying to get away, it is your fault, and the fault of the dog.
Sounds like she can be a good dog, but not with your family. To do right by the dog, you need to find her a new home. Do it quickly and without drama, and good luck.
Comment by megan — March 17, 2007 @ March 17, 2007 at 10:28 pm
I’m so sorry. That’s no fun. Sounds like Molly is a wonderful dog and will make a better pet for someone without small children. I hope it works out well.
Comment by Jenn — March 17, 2007 @ March 17, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Another thing, my best friend when I was a little girl was bitten by a friend’s dog, and still has a scar on her face from it. The dog-owner’s little girl also got bitten, and she still has a scar also, although it’s hidden in her hair. Not to be negative, but you’re right to put your girls’ safety first.
Comment by Jenn — March 17, 2007 @ March 17, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Megan, I think Karli’s trying to say to be constructive in one’s comments, and not to be rude, which is a valid request. Everyone here has been direct and polite, so I think it’s all good!
When Denali started growling at Noah, my pediatrician told me that if he bit Noah, just once, she would have to advise me to put the dog down. It’s that serious. I know how painful it is to have to give away a beloved dog, but that pain, I figure, is nothing compared to grappling with an injury of your own child because of your reticence to let go of Molly. Your vet made a very wise comment. You can contact shelters and ask for them to be fostered while they find a new home - one without kids. It’s not easy. Good luck, sweetie. Call if you need to.
Comment by Redheadmomma — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 4:36 am
My husband and I got a dog from our local shelter that we ended up having to give back. It was heart-wrenching, and I didn’t even have kids back then.
I had gone and told them what my work schedule was like and that I wanted an independent dog that could handle being in our yard when I wasn’t home (hubby worked a normal 8-5 job back then so his schedule wasn’t as complicated as mine, so not as much of an issue). The volunteer and I picked out a dog that seemed to match, we played for awhile and everything was great. It turned out they didn’t have much info other than what the volunteers observed because the family that surrendered the dog didn’t fill out any background paperwork. I came back the next day and played with him some more and while he seemed to remember me, which was nice, he was still very “Hi, nice to see you again. I’m going to go play over here.” No weirdness, just the independence I was looking for.
I feel I should mention that this was not my first dog ever. I had a Norwegian Elkhound as a kid so that’s the idea I had in my head of an independent dog.
Well, we get him home and he was nothing but insecurities. Howled and cried while I was away at work (I was working 4 hrs or less per day then). But was quiet when I came home so the first I knew of this behavior was the threatening note left on our door by a neighbor. I checked with the other neighbor (who was SANE and also worked at home) and she gave me the scoop.
Sadly, things quickly degenerated. The drunken, wife-beating neighbor told the sane neighbor that he didn’t want this to come to murder and that some people just shouldn’t have pets. She felt that he was threatening me, not the dog. And I stopped eating. Could not get a bite down. Because the whole neighborhood was aware of his behavior at home, I took her assessment of his statement to heart. That weekend we gave the dog back to the shelter with many tears, and I filled out all the info on their form. Noted behaviors, things that he was great at, everything that seemed to cause stress, his favorite treats — I wrote as tiny as I legibly could and still had to use the back of the form. I was worried because it is not a no-kill shelter that a dog brought it twice would just be put down. But it turned out that they fostered him. I got some calls from their doggie psychologist that made it clear to me that fostering had happened and that they were trying to decide if my assessment was right. Those calls were very positive, so I finally felt good about my choice. Maybe we weren’t his “forever home” as the doggie people say, but we gave him the chance to find the forever home that was really suited to him.
And my neighbor left me alone, eventually sold the house and now we have fantastic neighbors.
It can all work out, and from my experience the fostering option should definitely be explored. Good luck and many hugs.
Comment by KYouell — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 10:53 am
Redheadmomma - no matter what is actually said, people can be very touchy and testy about their pets.
Comment by megan — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 11:59 am
So, this is sort of off topic, but.. I just have to say that I think you’re the shit, Karli. It’s pretty awesome of you that you’re wanting - AND trying - to do the right thing. Like I said in a post above, a lot of people get touchy and psycho about their pets, and really unrealistic… but i just have to say, I love the fact that you’re looking out for your kids like a good mother.. but you’re also looking out for the dog, like a good friend. You’re not just like “oh, you’re not perfect, to the garbage with you!” That’s pretty rad, that you’re concerned about her health, her emotional well-being, that you want to find the best way of doing it…
Your kids are lucky, and that dog is lucky that you saved her from the poor treatment at the shelter, got her back to health, and I am sure will find an awesome home for her.
In case anyone here didn’t know… Karli is AWESOME.
Comment by megan — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 12:04 pm
When our family dog was about three, we were playing, and I was down on all fours, on the same level as her, carrying on and chasing her and I did something, scared her or threatened her somehow, so she lashed out and bit me. She took a small chunk out of my nostril. It frightens me to think what she could have done if I had been younger with much more tender skin.
I am totally a dog lover, so I understand that smushy gushy love you speak of. I don’t envy your predicament. You, of course, need to protect your children, but you don’t want to cause the dog any more hardship.
Sorry no advice, just wishes for good luck.
Comment by Kelly — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 1:06 pm
My only tid bit of info would be to consult a behaviorist before you try to rehome her. But in the end some dogs are better in a home without small children, and some are wonderful.
Would it be possible to keep her crated when you are not able to keep an eye on her, this is what I have ended up having to do with my dogs. Neither of them really have had any issues with the kids, except for once when one of the kids jumped on one of them. But my beagle is a table surfer too, and the mini dachshund has some territorial issues which he so wonderfully shows by peeing on things. Everything. GAH!
I wish you best of luck with all this. We hired a behavorist to come to our house and help with the beagle and she did and AMAZING job. It is soooo much more effective than a petsmart class or something, and you can also have the kids help do many of the training exercises, and the dogs then learn to work with the kids, and learn their place in the pack so to speak… That sounds so silly to me but it is true i guess.
You can email me if you have any questions I might be able to help with… I am by no means an expert but I was literally going out of my mind with my dogs last year at this time and working with the behaviorist changed it all completely.
xoxo
Comment by Georgia — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 1:18 pm
I’ve been in your shoes. It is a very, very, very hard decision. I do believe that a dog can be rehabilitated, but at what cost? It was not easy, but my husband and I decided for the safety of our son, we would rehome our puppy. We found a wonderful man who had just lost his wife. He needed a companion more than we did. Best of luck!
Comment by GaftGirl — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 5:09 pm
We just had this happen, too. About a month or so ago we got a dog through the himane society (after filling out forms and LOTS of phonecalls) and then decided to try it out for a weekend with the dog.
He was so cute and smart and I loved him but it was clear he had been through some rough things because even one growl at the kids is one too many. We had to take him back to the foster home with me and the kids all standing at the front door crying. But if a dog has any tendency towards that direction I know kids aren’t a good mix.
It makes me so sad for you. And us.
But I did read a cool newspaper article after that that said not to give up b/c it takes alot of visits sometimes to find the right dog for your family from the humane society.
Then we dogsat for a friend last week and their (super sweet and good) dog growled at my kids, too.
What to do?!
xoxo
Comment by Misha — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 6:42 pm
I’m so sorry. You’re absolutely right to put your kids first, of course, but I know it breaks the heart. We had a sweetheart of a dog, just an angel, but she was scared to death of kids. It ended up well; we left lots of info about her with the humane society, and eventually got a letter from the kind older couple who took her. But it was hard, hard, hard.
I hope you can find a solution for you and your family. Maybe the behaviorist mentioned earlier would be worth at least looking into… Good luck.
Comment by falwyn — March 18, 2007 @ March 18, 2007 at 8:24 pm
i had to rehome one of my pups after my little boy got mobile. it was such a hard thing to do, but the right decision. i contacted several rescue organizations near where i lived, and i kept the dog until a suitable home was found. that way i didn’t have to take the dog to the pound. i think it kind of eases the guilt if you can do it that way. i’ll still never quit feeling like i gave away one of my babies though. but yeah, the safety of our actual human babies trumps any dog.
good luck! its so hard!
Comment by leelee — March 19, 2007 @ March 19, 2007 at 7:31 am
Hey there, De-lurking for this one. Here are some suggestions, but I totally understand that not everyone has the time and patience - and time, is the thing - to do what it might take to get this doggy to a place where she would be safe with your kids at all times…
1. Do you give her good exercise every single day? If you’re short-ish on time to do this, maybe have her wear a doggie backpack with some cans of beans in the pockets. Dogs need exercise first, and a lot of behavioral problems can be solved by making sure they get this.
2. I think the crating idea might be a good one, but the crate has to be a place that is not used for punishment. It should be a safe haven for dogs that they enjoy nestling into.
3. Obedience classes might be good too. Give her something to learn, something to keep her agile little mind active and working hard so there’s less time/energy for dominance.
4. Establish your dominance every. single. day. Do not give any affection anywhere close to any bad behaviors. Trying to calm your dog sweetly when she is barking/growling only further encourages bad behavior. Don’t get angry when you are correcting her, just be calm and firm. You’re the boss. Know it, and Molly will know it too. Do not let any bad behavior go uncorrected.
And that’s all I can think of. But again, it’s totally understandable if you don’t have the time or energy to do all of this consistently. She’s just a dog, after all. I know that sounds harsh (especially to me! I love my Jessie Girl like she’s family!), but you gotta do what you gotta do. Good luck!
Comment by Shelby — March 20, 2007 @ March 20, 2007 at 8:13 am
Oh, and if she’s dominant at the doggy park and you can’t control her from a distance, then that visit once a week is just encouraging her overall dominance around the kids. You shouldn’t take her unless you can be in control of her 100% of the time by voice command. I know that sucks. Doggy parks are so much fun…
Comment by Shelby — March 20, 2007 @ March 20, 2007 at 8:15 am
ohh, what an awful choice to make. you do what you gotta do, but i definately second the suggestions to look into other options first. all the terriers are awfully stubborn and extremely smart, which cna be fantastic or terrible, depending on the situation. if you can afford a private behavorist, go for it, someone with a lot of knowledge can do amazing things, and show you how to do it too. and remember, everybody, including dogs, respond best to positive reinforcement. when you cat is around, or your kids, or a new person, distract molly with a treat or a special toy and give lots of praise while she’s good, make her associate these things with you being happy, and if the rest of your family can get in on it too, all the better. if you can supervise your kids giving her treats or a special toy, she’ll connect with them even more. excercise is a must - and not just physical excercise. a little mental stimulation goes a long way. teach her to sit, to shake,lay down, even 15-20 minutes of mental excercise can be exhausting when she’s not used to it. buy one of those treat balls she has to move around to get her food out of. dogs in the wild spend their time finding food, so your counter tops seem a lot more fascinating than her food bowl. and crates are AWESOME. you’re not putting your doggie in a cage, you’re giving her a home. a private bedroom she can feel safe in, and you know she’s safe there if you can’t be watching her.
get advice from a trained behavorist (and be picky about credentials if you can, really, anybody can say they’re a dog trainer) and if you’re not the right home for her, then help her find the right one. call the rescue groups, make the effort, ‘cause behavior problems are the main reason for dog euthanasia. make sure where ever you take her is aware of why you left her, so her new family can be ready to give her the structure she needs.
good luck, i know you’ll make the right decision for molly and your family. and if she’s not the one, don’t give up, you’re puppy’s out there.
Comment by leanna — March 23, 2007 @ March 23, 2007 at 8:05 am
I agree Shelby about the dog park. If you can’t keep her in line with the other dogs, then by bringing her there you’re actually telling her that it’s okay to behave in a dominant manner, and that she can get away with it.
Also, you mentioned that she gets upset when you have a child in your lap…do you let your dog sit in your lap? THAT is actually a big problem with dogs that have the need to be the top of the pack. You are encouraging her to think that she’s your number one pack member, and when a kid is on your lap, she thinks the kid is trying to usurp her position. This is something my mother has a big problem with, but you just can’t let your dog sit in your lap.
Oh, it’s so hard when your treasured pet doesn’t get along with your kids! And it is really too bad that the shelter suggested this dog with so little background info. I can’t imagine having to give up any of my pets, but I would do it in a second if I thought there was any chance that they would hurt my child. It would be too horrible if they did, and I wouldn’t want to live with that, despite the pain of giving up my pet. It will be better for her, too, if you find her a new home if she is that needy.
I know it’s a hassle, and possibly not feasible with a busy kid schedule, but have you looked for shelters out of your area that might have openings? You might also be able to find a private shelter if you look a bit online…
Good luck with this.
Comment by Eleanor the Great — April 23, 2007 @ April 23, 2007 at 7:13 am
Hello,
I foster dogs and have one that can not be trusted with small children. Anyone under 8 years old can not be exposed to her, she has fear issues and no one knows why. In general she’s good with everyone over eight years old. She knows basic commands and listens about 98% of the time witch I personally consider great for a terrier mix. I crate her when there are children or strangers coming over and if she seems scared about anything. I remove her from the stimulation and bring her back to it crated until she calms down. It may be as simple as you getting her trained and evaluated by a professional behaviorist. Terriers and mixes of this kind tend to be nippy, aggressive and very dominant and need a firm, educated in terrier’s hand. You still may be able to keep her and control the situation with no danger if you can gain more information for your arsenal. Lack of early socialization can add to these kinds of problems and may be one of many of her problems. Then there is also the fact she has lost everything and fears loosing you, leading to her wanting to protect you. People don’t think about how the animal feels when their world comes crashing down around them. It does the same psychological damage to them as it can to us. I prey you can come up with the best answer. hugs to you and wishing you well on this journey.
Comment by Gina — January 3, 2008 @ January 3, 2008 at 7:15 pm