this will probably be boring unless you’re mormon
What day is it? Wednesday? It feels like Thursday. Apparently the day after you explode all over your blog has a distinctly Thursday feel to it.
Thank you for the nice things that you said. I’m glad you still like me, even if I sometimes say rat’s ass. Although I’m sure that for each wonderful comment I got, there were a few people who rolled their eyes and wanted to tell me to shut up. And I love that I just don’t care.
Let’s take my list of “untouchable” items one by one, shall we? Today we are going to talk about number one on my list. A very uncomfortable and perhaps offensive subject for many of you, since I know that I am linked to by several religious websites. I left the Mormon church.
I would like to start out by saying that I have no bad feelings or resentment towards the Mormon church. I have nothing but wonderful memories of the time I spent as a Mormon, and I will forever feel enriched by that part of my life. I wouldn’t even go so far as to say that I lost my testimony. I still believe everything I was taught by the missionaries seven years ago. I still read the Book of Mormon. I haven’t ruled out ever coming back to church… but where I’m at in my life right now, I just don’t see it happening.
The reason I joined the church in the first place is because I was looking for a strong, spiritually uplifting community to guide and support me. I never went to church growing up, and I felt like I was missing something important in my life. I have always believed in God, and that faith has carried me through some of the loneliest times of my life. Not only did the Mormon church seem like a very solid and uncomplicated community, but the doctrine and teachings were very in line with the conclusions I had come to on my own while reading the Bible without a church affiliation. I had some questions and concerns about living as a Mormon, but I figured that the strong testimony I felt about the religious aspects of the church would come to override the confusion I had about the day to day Mormon life. I was surprised to find that as the years have gone by, not only have the concerns not been resolved for me, they have grown more pronounced.
First of all, I do not understand why men can hold the priesthood (the authority to perform official acts such as baptism and giving blessings) and women cannot. I heard one of the women leaders in the church say that she doesn’t have to work at a power plant to enjoy the benefits of its electricity. I think that’s a load of crap. I don’t feel that roles within any organization should be given based on gender (of course within the church it is also based on each individual male’s worthiness to accept the authority). Every woman I have ever met within the church has been just as, if not more than, worthy enough in my eyes to hold such a power. People have told me that maybe women are just innately more spiritual, so we don’t need that kind of a job to feel close to God. I think that’s a cop out and a weak justification. I have never felt that if God truly loves his children equally, he would want us to be segregated in that way. It is much too black and white, and I think it allows people to not have to examine each individual’s merits, instead filing us neatly away into the right box for our gender. I know that “sexist” is a charged word, but I think it does fit this situation. And I don’t believe that God is sexist.
Another concern of mine has been the undercurrent of judgement and comparison that happens within the church, especially among the women. I think that this is something that’s probably an issue within most church environments, it’s not just specific to the Mormon church. Whenever you get a group of imperfect people together to teach morality and spirituality, it’s going to happen. We’re human. I understand that. But there is an unwritten code of conduct for Mormon women that I never felt like I could follow, no matter how hard I tried. As a woman in the church, you’re supposed to be kind. Gentle. Forgiving. Patient. Supportive of your husband and his church duties. We’re supposed to stay home with our children. Forego our personal needs for the greater good of our family and church community. While individually, I wholeheartedly support these concepts, when they are taught and supported exclusively, without the other side of what I think it takes to be a real woman, it really gets to me. No one ever wants a Mormon wife to speak her mind on controversial opinions. We are taught that even though marriage is a partnership, we should submit to our husband’s authority as the patriarch of the home. There’s no room for personal expression in our activities or appearance that goes beyond what most church ladies find acceptable. Can you imagine a Mormon woman coming to church with pink hair, or proudly telling of her experiences as a rock climber? Oh, the looks she would get. The ladies at church would much rather talk about the newest needlepoint stitch they learned at study group, or the best way to cook a green bean casserole. As much as I know that the difficult and unusual experiences I have had in my life have made me the person I am today, I never felt like those things were something I could ever talk about with other women in the church. And going to church every week and seeing rows and rows and rows of women who were all trying to pretend to be this perfect specimen of Mormon femininity absolutely sucked the life out of me. I have no idea how I could have ever raised my girls to be the women I want them to be in an environment like that.
There are smaller things that always bugged me about the church, like wearing garments and not drinking coffee. Stuff that annoyed me, but was never a deal breaker. But stacked together with the things I have talked about here just made being part of the Mormon church a much more negative experience than I expected it to be. Like I said, I still feel like I have a strong testimony of the Book of Mormon and the fundamental doctrine of the church, but I’m just not sure anymore that the way the church does things can really be considered the “true” and “only” way for me to come closer to God. I need a place that wants me there because of who I am, instead of trying to turn me into something different. Maybe someday I will come to a place in my life where I am able to hold on to my individuality and differing beliefs, and still be able to enjoy my membership in the church. But right now, it’s just not something I’m able to do. And I feel like I am making the right decision.
Amen! One of the hardest aspects of the Mormon culture for me was the focus on “callings” — a particular responsibility in the church, from being the activity coordinator or Sunday school painist up to a bishop or “General Authority”. While these are noble things to do, they all take away from people’s responsibilities at home. I decided a long time ago that I would never accept an appointment as a bishop or in the “bishopric”, because it means virtually spending all of one’s time outside of work engaged in church duties. I found it hard to reconcile the church’s stated policy that the family is the most important spiritual unit and the oft-quoted “No success can compensate for failure in the home” with high-ranking church officials who hardly ever see their families. Their children can say they’re great fathers (and they do), their wives can say they’re great husbands (and they do), but I maintain my belief that if you’re not around, you can’t be a great anything.
Comment by Ammon — December 6, 2006 @ December 6, 2006 at 11:39 pm
First, I want to say this: I think I like you EVEN MORE today than I did, oh, before today, when I already liked you tremendously.
Second, what you have articulated here are many of the reasons I left the Catholic church, and many of the reasons I don’t go to church at all these days. I still think I have faith, but I am continually frustrated by the way organized religions manifest that faith.
I’m glad you are writing about this. I hope the writing helps you to find peace.
Comment by Susan — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 7:14 am
kudos to you for making a decision that will best allow your true faith to blossom. in the midst of all of that, you’ve challenged your (former) church about some serious patriarchy, and rightfully so.
I grew up in a Mormon stronghold in Arizona. Most of my friends growing up were Mormon. One by one, I watched intelligent, creative women molded into some church ideal that might have suited the group well but made them very very boring.
And don’t even get me started on some of the theological practices I find puzzling (baptism of the dead) and outright sexist (that whole thing about being married forever in the celestial kingdom; while he can remarry, she can’t)
Comment by Nicole — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 8:03 am
well said. i have the same feelings. i play the piano and harp - and you know - it just got to the point where i felt used for my “talents” - but we’re taught to not hide those damn talents. last christmas after being burnt out after playing in ward after ward, and dragging my young child and husband along, i realized that it was wearing our family down and i couldn’t do it anymore. it’s hard to be one of those women that don’t fit the mold. at an enrichment night, we had an “open” panel, and they had 6 of us there that they’d asked to discuss different levels of being a mom, wanting to be a mom, etc. i talked about my own infertility, miscarriage, and jealousy of my teen sister who was able to get pregnant - you should have seen the looks i got. there i was bearing my soul for all to see - hopefully get some of that honesty out there for others to be able to relate and not feel alone. but what i learned that night was to not speak from my heart. to cover the things that pain me the most. sucks. but am so much happier now not going. our sundays are SO GREAT! we actually are able to spend the time together as a family, and enjoy one another, rather than trying to rush out the door and spend long hours there then come home tired and spent.
keep the honest writing coming! i love it!
Comment by leelee — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 8:42 am
i truly feel sorry for your bad experiences with the lds faith. sure we are all human and we make mistakes, but i still feel that the church is true despite the shortcomings of the members who attend. i dont go to church for the people, i go because i believe that it is true and that is where God wants me.
i appreciate your open honest feelings, i hope that you can find something that brings you peace and happiness.
Comment by jodi jean — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 10:18 am
I get what you’re saying about the priesthood, and I don’t suppose there’s much I can say from my own standpoint that you haven’t heard before. To be honest, it’s just not anything I spend time worrying about. I do wonder, though, about your experience with other women in the church. I hear this all the time, and I just don’t get it. I wonder if it helps to be in an area that isn’t dominated by the church, and especially in an urban area. I joined the church in Eugene, OR, during my second year of college, and I’m telling you, those ladies did not talk about knitting or avoid chances for personal expression. Now living outside of Portland, things are pretty much the same here. Women who are well-educated, in some cases high-powered in their careers, are left and right in our ward. True, none of them have pink hair, but I’m willing to bet a handful of them rock climb and may be called on to talk about it in Enrichment! It does take a little swimming against the “traditional” current, but there is a younger generation that is very strong in the church that doesn’t adhere to the “stay home, have kids, and shut up” mentality.
My church experiences since converting 14 years ago haven’t ALL been positive, and there are absolutely some things that make me raise a brow now and then (more “cultural” aspects, not really doctrinal). So, I do get where you’re coming from.
Comment by Stacey — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 12:42 pm
If others have doubts about your leaving the church, don’t let them affect you. Not being in a building doesn’t mean that you aren’t doing it right, it doesn’t mean that you don’t love God, or that you won’t bring your children up right. I’m part of a very different Catholic sect, and I can tell you, in my opinion…
You’re not wrong.
Comment by Megan — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 12:56 pm
I’m not Mormon, lots of my extended family is. I’ve always wondered about those things, which may be why I’m not Mormon. All I know is that where I go to church and what I believe and am allowed to talk about and explore in depth and with a lot of questions, is a whole lot more freeing and fulfilling than I imagine trying to be a Mormon women would be. Every church I have ever been in has an element that would like everyone to comform and look perfect and be happy, I choose to go to the places where pretending like that isn’t allowed and the point aof being in the community is to be called on things that you are pretending to be perfect in, and being supported in your efforts to change by knowing that they know all of your crap, and love you anyway. Kind of like where you are going with yesterday’s post, this is me, if you don’t like it, I don’t care. BUt it’s so nice to have people who do like you when you let your guard down and get around to being real.
Comment by carrien — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 1:23 pm
I joined the church for reasons almost identical to yours. After 13 years as a member, I left the church for reasons similar to yours. I hear you on point number two. I hated that everyone pretended perfection so as not to be looked down on… because you WOULD be looked down on for being less than perfect. You’d also be looked down on for expressing any concerns or doubts about anything in the church. And yes, I felt boring. I also felt there was too much pressure on members to DO so many things. If you didn’t become an Eagle Scout, go on a mission, stay home with your children, etc, etc, you were looked down on.
The priesthood never bothered me that much… not something I would ever have been interested in having, given the opportunity… but what DID bother me about it was that people were given it unworthily. Even more, people were being given temple recommends by priesthood holders, when I KNEW they were not worthy and were lying during interviews. For all this priesthood power they were supposed to have, they couldn’t discern who was lying and who wasn’t. Additionally, the whole thing about the temple being a holy place where the spirit of God could dwell… because God cannot dwell in unholy places… and yet all these unworthy people were going into the temple, so that it was defiled and the spirit of God couldn’t possibly be there… but people would still report having great spiritual experiences there. All made no sense at all.
The other thing I couldn’t stand was that, if I had any problems or didn’t get some of the blessings I was supposed to get, of course it wasn’t because God had failed me… it was, naturally, because I had failed to be perfect in some area of my life… not reading the Book of Mormon enough, not getting 100% in my visiting teaching, not praying hard or long or sincerely enough… whatever it was, it was always my fault if I was not happy. I have a hard enough time with guilt in my life, without the church dumping piles more onto me. Plus, the church was always saying how nobody was perfect, but if we had a problem, it was because we weren’t perfect in some area. So, apparently, there was no way to be happy without being perfect! And I wasn’t happy. I am so much happier after leaving the church! I love my new, broader-minded, more tolerant view of the world. I love not having to be perfect, or strive for perfection. I love being away from all those fakely perfect people.
Apologies to those who still like the church and are happy there and don’t worry about those things that have been mentioned here. I’m very glad for you that you are happy and find fulfillment there. I’m also very glad for me that I don’t have to be there and try to live up to those things any more.
Comment by Skye — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 1:42 pm
Good luck in your search, for the peace of mind you seek.
Comment by JD — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 4:30 pm
How sad your experience has been, how honest your expression, how I wish some of my dearest friends in the church would read and understand your blog.
I loathe and detest the way mediocre men given what they assume to be power, almost immediately begin to abuse it. Let me say this, if there are good men in the church then they should make themselves known and reknown by confronting these pathetic morons who with there buzz phrase generators who spout pious claptrap from the rostrums every sunday.
Confront them with the word NO when they seek to control your lives as though you were “Stepford Wives” little Molly Mormons, the creeps (for that is what they are) will crumple and fizzle out before your eyes. Garments? what would you do if some creep came up to you and asked “are you wearing your underwear?” You’d smack him straight in the eye and hopefully draw blood.
Now if you can slither that question past any decent person you can ask anything. Am I right or am I right?
Keep blogging.
Never give intelligence or explanations to a horse’s ass!
(Melchizedek priesthood holder by the way, but I tell it as it is, TR usually in the bishop’s drawer.)
Comment by Will — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 4:32 pm
You know God will meet you no matter what “church” you attend. I love your honesty. I love your soul. The most important thing is, that you DO search for God. For in Him you will find rest!
Comment by Queen Beth — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 6:08 pm
I have such a deep respect for you for writing this. You have helped many others in writing this, of that I’m sure, because you’re doing a great job at pointing out some pretty big elephants in the room. I snorted at that “working at the power plant” comment that you heard, by the way.
But this is what I’d really like to know: how on earth did you get the time to write a lengthy, well-thought-out, eloquent essay on this very important subject when you have two small children? They must be angels, for all I can figure. Can we trade kids?
Comment by Redheadmomma — December 7, 2006 @ December 7, 2006 at 10:31 pm
While I appreciate your thoughts on this, I honestly don’t know the women you are talking about! The mormon women I go to church with are exciting individuals who are feisty and opinionated and who speak their minds. They have a million passions and they are all different.
As for God not being sexist….of course he’s not. But that doesn’t mean he made man and woman equal. God gave women the ability to bear children. He didn’t give God that. Men and women look differently, they sound differently, they have different personality traits. Why is it so confusing as to why they might have different jobs in the kindgom of God?
I get confused by women complaining that women are all trying to conform to this ideal idea of mother, etc. Honestly, it feels like some people want women to conform to this idea that we are just like men! That seems like someone wants to fit me into this mold with every human being on the planet. Why would I settle for being like a man when I can be a daughter of God, with my own unique abilities and powers?
Comment by Heather — December 8, 2006 @ December 8, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Just popping in to say I’m reading and not making like a tree. I think we’re all just doing the best we can and trying to be happy, yes?
xo
Jessica
I’m okay with having questions.
Comment by kerflop — December 8, 2006 @ December 8, 2006 at 1:26 pm
I was going to say exactly what Heather did. She beat me to it!
While I have seen some of the women you described, I’ve found that the majority are not like that. Something I’ve learned since coming into the blog world is that Mormon moms aren’t that different than non-Mormon moms. I can think of several Mormon bloggers off the top of my head who definitely don’t fit the mold you described. And I think that is the way the majority of us are.
I respect your views and opinions. Mine are very different. Perhaps mine are different because I was raised Mormon and then fell away and lost my testimony for awhile. I hit rock bottom and experienced pure hell before finding my way back. Are there things that bug me about the church? You bet!! (Me and Dh as nursery leaders for starters, lol!) But, they are minor and don’t affect the big picture for me.
Comment by Alicia — December 8, 2006 @ December 8, 2006 at 1:29 pm
I’ve been absent from the blogdom for a while, but came back in time to read this post. Wow.
I respect your choices, and I hope you have greater peace now.
Comment by abc momma — December 8, 2006 @ December 8, 2006 at 2:43 pm
I really appreciated Stacey, Heather, and Alicia’s comments about the women in the church. It too has been my experience that most women in the church are not apt to sit around doing needlework or talk exclusively about quilting, although quilting is something that I have really started to enjoy..:) I also like hiking, music, the arts, good literature, politics, a really good debate, movies, exercise, traveling, photography, my husband, my children, and lets see what else . . .
In the 15 years that I have been a member, I have gone to church in New York, Pennsylvania, Seattle, and Utah and have come across very vibrant, very intelligent, VERY independent, and eclectic women. In the bottom of my heart, I really do not believe that church leadership has come out with any “mold” for the women of the church. Yes, we are encouraged to be at home with the kids but I know many women who do both careers and motherhood and nobody really thinks much of it because really it is their choice. I think most of us think others think about us a lot more than they actually do anyways.
Most of the things I have heard church leaders say to or about the women of the church are contrary to what people believe the “typical Mormon wife” or woman is like. Church leadership has always stressed education for women and being involved in the world around them and what an important role we play within the LDS church as far back as Joseph Smith.
As far as the priesthood goes, I believe that it really is not a matter of equality or who is better or who is best or that God somehow looks at women differently or is even trying to put us into neat little gender molds. The priesthood is not a power trip and although some men have exercised it as such, this is not the way that it should be used and the Church frowns on this use of the priesthood, which is called unrighteous dominion.
It really does come down to working together and using our unique abilities for a common cause. It is a hard thing to swallow sometimes in the age of women always trying to compete with men over equality. If others do not agree with that, there is one thing I do know, God does look at us with equal love and nothing is taken from our importance as women or human beings just because we do not hold the priesthood.
Can I just leave just one more thing? This is from the November 1991 Ensign at lds.org stated by our Church President Gordon B. Hinckley, “My brethren, you who have had conferred upon you the priesthood of God, you know, as I know, that there is no enduring happiness, that there is no lasting peace in the heart, no tranquility in the home without the companionship of a good woman. Our wives are not our inferiors.”
I truly believe that just because I do not have the priesthood that I am somehow inferior to my husband. Each of our roles are uniquely different and valuable. It does not mean that Mormon women are meant to stay in the background tied up from the world and chained to the home with their children because they do not have the priesthood (personally, being at home with the kids has not been my favorite thing in the world but I make opportunities for myself to grow and my husband has always told me that if I choose to do something else, he would support me but this is something I would probably choose to do whether I was LDS or not).
Women are an active, strong, and vital part of the LDS faith and carry huge responsibilities for its continued progression with MANY opportunities to be in leadership positions, etc. There are many things that I would love to touch on, but I have already gotten way too long winded and those were to two most important things to me. I only hope you find what you are looking for and you are a wonderful person, from what I can tell from your blog. Just remember, no matter what, God is always with you in whatever way you choose to worship him.
Comment by Carrie — December 8, 2006 @ December 8, 2006 at 4:04 pm
I have to agree with Heather on the whole priesthood thing. It’s not like men are given the ability to have babies. (Thank goodness, the population wouldn’t last very long would it?)
I don’t think women would make good bishops. They aren’t good secret keepers. You know? I don’t think they would be able to keep confidential information to themselves.
There is a reason to all of it. And some things, like the coffee, I think are just to test our obedience.
I still like you, Karli. I am glad you are still reading the Book of Mormon. That was one thing that always held me together– knowing that I knew the Book of Mormon was true and that no other church had it.
Comment by Stephanie — December 8, 2006 @ December 8, 2006 at 9:51 pm
I became a religion drop-out when leaders in the Christian youth organization I will not name (coughYoungLifecough)started telling me that my uncle went to hell because he was gay. They told me this after he suffered through AIDS and died, shunned by ignorant doctors, neighbors, family, church, etc. I went to like 15 different churches trying to find a group of people who weren’t so anxious to say who is going to hell and why, and a church that didn’t go for all that male chauvinist bullshit. Needless to say, I sleep in on Sundays.
Anyway, hearing your story reminded me of those feelings. My question is: why can’t there be a church where we can do all the good things (taking care of each other, singing songs, talking about spiritual things, reading spiritual texts) without the judgment and damnation? Without the sexist bullshit? (sorry nice Mormon commentors, but I think it is a bunch of bullshit).
Sorry to swear up your comments, Karli. You just got me thinking.
Comment by Angela — December 8, 2006 @ December 8, 2006 at 11:43 pm